And another thing - downtown pedestrians

[windelina]

Courtesy would go a long way towards making everybody's lives better.

I won't run over you in the crosswalk if you'll be kind enough to hustle your ass as you cross!

Honestly, it takes longer to make a right turn in downtown than it does to make a left! You're lucky if two cars make the turn each cycle!

I think downtown should adopt a rush-hour pedestrian/light plan.
The traffic signal cycle would change to:
North-South traffic goes (pedestrians do not have right of way)
East-West traffic goes (pedestrians do not have right of way)
Pedestrians cross any which way (pedestrians have complete right of way - heck cross the intersection diagonally!)

Seriously, wouldn't this be better? If nobody was in your way, you could still turn, or jaywalk.

See how much better things would be if I ran the planet.
Submit now and spare yourself years of agony.

Comments

[dangerdhotrod.livejournal.com]

whoa i disagree with you about something?

sorry but pedestrians should never have to hustle. like you're in a car, you're getting to your destination way way faster so you can afford to wait. and it's not like you're getting cold or rained on or whatever while you're waiting. i hate it when i'm crossing and i feel like i need to hurry up. it's like yo chill out!

also it's your fault for turning.

i think a solution is in order though because the way it works now is that pedestrians and cars have to go at the same time.

all auto traffic should have arrows. like all left turns have green left turning arrows and also right turning arrows when the pedestrians can't go then the right turn arrows stop and the pedestrians can go and cars can only go straight then.

your way would work too but it seems like some things could be worked out like while some cars are going left on the other side the people could be crossing and whatnot. there's totally a cool efficiency thing to be worked out there.

or hey how about a system where all the auto traffic happens on one level and the walking traffic on another? but that would be too futuristic and we all know that cool things never get to happen.

[windelina.livejournal.com]

Okay - have you ever been annoyed because you're trying to get somewhere and you have to wait while people cross? Ever?? (You're especially doomed if you're turning right, because when the light is red, you've got people crossing in front of you and when the light is green, they're crossing in front of where you want to go.)

I try to remember the other's point of view when I'm in each situation. When I'm a ped, I try to move out of a car's way fast. When I'm in a car, I try to be concious and courteous of pedestrians.

So, I think pedestrians should be a little more car concious - especially during rush hour when there's a lot of traffic, foot and car. If you want to enjoy the weather (or curse it), do that on the sidewalks, not in the crosswalks.

Arrows would work too - we just need some sort of designated turning time because it can really back up an intersection having a whole lane full of cars trying to turn right (or left).

My model comes from a story someone told me that in some Asian country they do it like that - car time and then pedestrian time and peds can cross anywhichway.

So many of our laws and habits are based on outdated models (horse and buggy - hello?!). But we don't change them because it would be too hard to teach people a new habit. Gah! I want flying cars!!

[dangerdhotrod.livejournal.com]

oh i get annoyed. totally! i remember the u of m and turning right anywhere in stadium village is such a nightmare basically one car gets through everytime the light turns.

but i think of transportation as a caste system.

like from high to low it goes

subway
trains
pedestrians
bikes
buses (plural of bus? busses?)
cars
suvs
limos
hummers
limo hummers

so if you're a car and you get annoyed with a bike or pedestrian it is important to keep in mind that you are not as good as the biker or walker. you are like dirt compared to their purity. it is hard to remember but it is true they can do no wrong, their ways are incomprehensible to your lowly mind. if you get annoyed utter Om and hope that in another lifetime you will be reborn in their form.

suvs and limos are in the realm of untouchable and are worthy of contempt.

[morgana-lafey.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you. I think it's natural for people to get annoyed when they have to wait, either for cars or pedestrians. When we're pedestrians, we think the cars should wait for us, and when we're driving, we think the pedestrians should stay out of the street.

Typical human impatience aside, though, I think it's part of our responsibility, as people who live in communities, to try to be as courteous as possible at all times. It's everyone's right to use the road, but nobody's right to hog it up. I don't mind waiting for people to cross at a reasonable pace for them. If they are older, disabled, or burdened, tough for me, I have to wait for them, even if they are slow. I don't expect anyone to sprint across the street. I do, however, expect pedestrians to be courteous and cross as quickly as they are able. Walk with a purpose, people! I hate it when people stroll out into the street, often without even checking for cars, and meander about, taking their sweet time because they feel entitled to make drivers wait as long as possible. That's just rude and dangerous, to boot. The law may favor pedestrians, but physics doesn't. If the driver doesn't wait or doesn't see you, you're the one who's going to get run over. Personally, I'd rather wait than get creamed by a car, even if the light says "Walk."

Oh, and I've seen the light system you proposed in action, Windy. There's a few interesections in Austin, adjacent to UT's campus that switched to that system while I was in college there. The waits were longer for cars and walkers, but you had more time to walk or drive through the intersection when it was your turn, and you could cross diagonally, which is convenient.

[morgana-lafey.livejournal.com]

By the way, I think I replied to the wrong comment. Sorry, trying to do too many things at once. No offense to dangerdhotrod, but I meant I agree with windelina. I like the caste system of transportation, very cool, but I completely disagree with the idea that pedestrians should never have to hustle. Everyone should have to be courteous. Also, I think too many pedestrians are too trusting that just because cars are supposed to stop, they will. I've almost been mowed down by a woman who nearly ran a red light because she was talking on a cell phone and driving really fast, in a pedestrian heavy area, no less. You can take all the time you want to cross, but I prefer not to linger in the street and hope that drivers are being careful.

[dangerdhotrod.livejournal.com]

i agree about being courteous. when i cross i get across i don't dawdle and after spending a few years riding my bike through downtown to work every day i pretty much assume that vehicles are actively trying to kill me. i've had to take that view just to keep from going crazy. (like how people will speed up to get past a bike in order to turn right only to have people crossing in the crosswalk so they brake and totally block the bike from passing through - aaaghh!).

anyway the beef i have with the pedestrians have to hustle concept is if you want to talk about being courteous then if someone's taking their time crossing because maybe it's more courteous to not try to force the whole world into some kind of culture of impatience. hurry hurry hurry!

like i've been in the car with people who are like 'hurry up woman!' and i look up and it's a pregnant woman!

also you never know if someone's got hemmoroids or a foot problem. maybe they're walking slow because they have to. also i think a lot of people get super pissed at homies moseying across the street. maybe it's not all about you, you know?

when people get so rushed and especially in cars i think it's just really easy to take everything so personally. like the suckiness of being stuck in traffic is projected out into everything.

[last-gentleman.livejournal.com]

And to add fuel to the debating fire, why is it that Minneapolis can't get 1)a decently-timed traffic light plan as you suggested or 2)sensored lights? Trying to travel down some streets at, say, 2 AM is a hassle when you have to wait at a stop light for the cars that are not driving past.

And I say this as a pedestrian!

[windelina.livejournal.com]

The list of things that could be done better is oh so lengthy.

[hedgiewan.livejournal.com]

They have plenty of lights like that on the east coast, and the problem is that pedestrians have to wait so long for their light that they end up jaywalking anyway.

[windelina.livejournal.com]

But jaywalking people tend to be people who will get OUT OF THE WAY as opposed to regular pedestrians crossing with the light - so I still think this is a win-win.

Besides, I'd only really want this during rush hour downtown.

[gunthar.livejournal.com]

I have to side with Windy on this one.

Tonight as Ginger and I were leaving work we almost got rear-ended when we stoped quickly to avoid hitting the car in front of us, which also had come to an abrupt stop.

Two cars ahead of us two adults and a child were crossing the road against a do-not-walk light. The walkway was on a very wide roadway--with two lanes of traffic on each side, divided by a median. It was dark out, all three pedestrians were dressed in black or dark clothing and the adults were making the kid (4? 5-years-old?) toddle along on his own power.

Aparently the light is timed just long enough to let pedestrians make it to the median. The adults just didn't want to have to wait another traffic cycle to complete the crossing.

Idiots.